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Brexit Stolen Votes


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BREXIT: UK's EU Referendum

Stolen Votes : Fraudulent Margin

This Is

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This page needs some re-ordering but I cant keep. up.

Mail List, Started 2016-09-05 (Westminster Hall Petition Debate Day)


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  • This page started not for or against Brexit (British exit from EU), but with message:
    Regardless if For or Against Brexit, Please Register & Vote
    UK deprived 700,000 (or more) British living longer than 15 years in the EU of any vote. If you can still vote, don't let them steal your vote too: Register & Vote !
    New message:
    Brexit Referendum Margin Is Fraudulent: After Stealing/ Depriving 700,000 (or more) votes from UK citizens in EU, the rump results do not represent us.

    UK stole our right to MP representation: 700,000/ 92,000 = 8 MPs. The British parliament fails to represent 700,000 UK ex pats in Europe, who also only have EU MEPs till UK exits EU.
  • On Referendum day, author was on the street in the UK, urging people to vote & get their friends to vote, whichever way they wanted, "Cos I'm British & not _Allowed_ to vote!" - All were surprised & thought it unfair he couldn't vote!
  • Government gerrymandered & stole the votes of many UK citizens resident in Europe.
    (Not Yet Documented at
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Britain stole the vote from 700,000 (or more) of 2,000,000 British in EU -
Dis-Enfranchised: 3.5 million globally : Gerrymandering ( Wiki)

You'd expect British residents abroad in EU over 15 years should be well informed on UK, EU, & Brexit, & worthy of a vote ?
UK instead steals our right to vote, dis-enfranchises us!
As excuse, UK mis-appropriated as precedent, the 15 year limit for UK local internal general election suffrage.
UK ignores that many British long term ex-pats in EU would be increasingly Better informed about EU, than many UK citizens who've just stayed home in UK, traded with EU, or holiday-ed in EU.
UK dis-enfranchises some of its most informed & affected citizens!
UK hypocrisy cheats:
  • The UK, resident in the EU longer than 15 years, asserts its right to vote on Brexit
  • Yet UK stole the same right to vote on Brexit, from UK citizens equally resident in the EU longer than 15 years.
Petition The Queen

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      No Taxation Without Representation 1750 and Now

  • Many British in EU are denied votes on Brexit.
  • Britain still taxes those whose votes it steals, gerrymandering.
  • Last time Idiots in the UK Parliament did that, it provoked the American Revolution against Britain.
  • This time, 90% of British citizens this author knows, are applying for German citizenship. Probably similar across Europe.
  • Many British in EU have investments taxed at source in UK: banks, building societies, pensions, property rental, shares etc.
  • Some will renounce British citizenship if dual nationality is not allowed if Britain leaves EU & that threatens their EU residence.
  • The EU recently got its member countries including Germany to allow dual citizenship
  • Estonian e-citizenship is not a solution, its only an identity for Internet not a citizenship giving residence.
  • Parliament & "No Taxation Without Representation"
    • British politicians have not learnt in over 250 years: They alienated British citizens in America 1750 & lost America, Now they alienate British citizens in Europe. Many British author knows are taking German citizenship because of Brexit. We can't complain to our MPs because we don't have one - The UK Government Stole Our Votes ! (& inverse happens too: A German Lufthansa air steward living in London was on TV, because he took British nationality, afraid for his UK residency because of Brexit)
    • 2016-05-11: BBC Parliament: Chris Grayling, Leader of the House Common, to Select Committee (on "EVEL: English Votes For English Laws") quoted
      "No Taxation Without Representation" ... But only to do with UK internal devolution, Scots Welsh Irish & English matters. Still insular vision only !
  • Why pay tax to a stupid cheating thief ?
    • The UK government thieves, stealing votes from UK ex pats.
    • The UK government cheated, gerrymandered, denied many most affected citizens a vote.
    • The UK government is stupid:
      • Denied its most informed citizens a vote.
      • Abuses British ex pat citizens. - Scaring them to suddenly rush for dual citizenships.
      • Scares foreign residents in UK to apply for British passports.
  • What to do when UK is treasonous to citizens ?
    • UK may have to learn again, as per USA war of independence from Britain:
      No Taxation Without Representation"
    • Individual solutions:
    • UDI ? Split UK ? ( SNP wants to. - London Too ?)
      • "A split is Impossible ! ? No! In England's civil war there was a similar a patchwork of 2 sides as there is now, & PM May maximises fear of a maximally Hard Brexit, & fear & dissent grow.
      • Encourage London to declare independence ?
      • (UDI aka ex Rhodesia ?) from England.
      • London & city etc will be badly affected by Brexit,
      • London a stronghold of Remainers (in EU).
      • London has more money for ad campaigns, lawyers etc. Money talks.
      • London has more population than Nordic members of EU.
      • London has maritime access.
      • London bigger than state of Singapore. Venice was also once a wealthy powerful city state, various other city states etc.
      • A first petition raised 100,000 signatures in late 2016 ? (I recall hearing, Need to check, Search web refs)
      • 24 June 2016 "It's time for London to leave the UK and stay in the EU"
      • UK Ex Pats could adopt dual citizenship of London State, abandon middle England to its isolationist Brexit fate, & optionally drop UK citizenship later.
      • Currency: Pound Sterling initially presumably, then Euro later ? Several countries not part of UK use Pound Sterling, just as some non USA use dollar, & some non EU use Euro.
      • Monarchy: As before, no point rocking the boat, & QE2 is monarch of 16 realms, of which UK is just 1.
      • Other issues: Search what others have discussed.
    • A Celtic Union ? Northern Ireland from Scottish stock. Maybe a broad band through Scotland & Ireland ?
    • Create a mini or micro state
      • wealthy with lots of ex pat income,
      • join/ remain in the EU.
      • It would retain our EU citizenship.
      • It would levy some tax, & deprive UK of a lot of ex pat tax inc. investment tax.
      • If some citizens bought a small piece of land somewhere in EU, on understanding with vendor country they will declare independence after purchase, create a new mini state & ask EU to accept them, on same set of agreements as UK, or same as state patch of land purchased from, or whatever EU cares to stipulate, to allow ultra rapid integration.
      • It might incredibly please the EU to rub UK's nose in it, as EU don't want UK to leave, & would be a stick for EU to beat UK with, would also keep many of the UK ex pat professionals & wealthy professionals already in EU.
      • UK citizens would have right of abode in all EU countries inc. UK, till the day UK leaves. After, dual citizens of mini state & UK state would still retain right of abode in UK, that would only dissappear for those who renounced UK citizenship.
        Note it is possible to have triple etc citizenships, eg that of UK, where you live, & some 3rd country eg new mini state.
      • ex UK citizens could in future pay investment etc taxes that used to go to UK, to new micro state member of EU ?
      • Mini state would pay EU whatever,
      • UK would loose a Lot of tax,
      • We'd pay less tax than before to UK: no UK national debt!
      • Yes, whoever set it up would be paid well to do it, serious work.
      • No, author is not looking to do it, he's a computer consultant not an entrepreneur.
      • Maybe start with a venture capital like structure, maybe a or similar ?
      • Currency: Euro
      • Maybe schemes are afoot already ? Search
  • Daft Ideas ? No, just thinking outside the box ! They will only remain unlikely, unless/ until promoted.
    • It was daft to try to fly, till they succeeded.
    • Bitcoin would have sounded far fetched till it happened !
    • The ideas don't even need new technology, & there's historical precedent for all elements.
  • Political solutions within UK
    • Contact MPs:
      • The changing sentiment in the country, the narrow original percentage vote difference has narrowed, flipped or nearing yet ?
      • Ex pat votes were gerrymandered/ stolen.
      • The enormity & longevity of issues, compared with trivial repetitive 5 year General Elections.
      • Remind MPs of the old adage: "It's the economy, Stupid! Where will UK be as the Pound continues to dive faster after Brexit ? MPs need to think longer term for UK, than fickle pendulum voters in ballot booths.
    • London & Scotland & sensible MPs could & should
      • Force non party whipped, free individual conscience non party votes in Commons & Lords (Brexit issues are Not conventional left/right UK party politics, it's an abuse of the whip using it to bolster May's Hard Brexit).
      • Force government to give ex pats votes.
      • Force a referendum on negotiated terms, after terms are negotiated & published.
    • Petition the Queen

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Results of Referendum: Narrow decision to leave EU

www . bbc . co . uk / news / politics / eu_referendum / results
Leave 17,410,742 Votes 51.9%
Remain 16,141,241 Votes 48.1%
Difference 1,269,501
British in EU, Denied A Vote Between 700,000 (or more) to 2,000,000
British globally, Denied A Vote + 3 or 4 MILLIONS! : Statements to parliament

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We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.
4,135,446 at 2016-07-13 11:03 CEST
Parliament will debate this petition on 5 September 2016. You'll be able to watch online at

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Create Another PETITION

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July 2016 & Beyond

  • The post Referendum political chaos { inc. Conservative & Labour resignations, challenge from Scotland, legal moves to ensure a prime can't just implement Brexit without parliament (Mischcon), half baked ignorant statements ignoring individual civil rights embedded in treaties beyond mere EU, etc} Creates time & space through to the Autumn & beyond, to think deeper, & better consider all aspects of a possible Brexit, rather than stupidly take the narrow Referendum margin as knee jerk authorisation to leave.
  • It was infuriating to listen to radio in UK for days after Referendum, to repeatedly hear lots in ignorance say
  • "We've all had a chance to vote, now we must implement it" IT'S A LIE ! We did not _All_ have a chance to vote !!
  • BRITAIN STOLE OUR VOTES : Author is a British citizen, was physically in UK (Kent) on the day & not eligible to register or vote
  • It would be irresponsible to push Brexit through without serious House Of Commons & Lords multi readings & debate.
  • Some in UK who voted Leave EU really just intended a kick or warning to the EU Brussels bureaucracy, some probably didn't expect a majority with immediate consequences. Even many who voted Remain In EU also consider the Brussels bureaucracy overpaid, bloated, forcing ever more regulations on us too fast, annoying almost all members with their wide interference. Bloat worsened by speaking every language in the EU, with costs of interpreters & translators, delays & mis-understanding. Even wasting a 1/4 of their time each month in Strasbourg. Many citizens of the EU outside the UK also think we need a looser Europe with flexibility, moving slower together, not forced fast by overpaid EU bureaucrats driving their own agenda of grand visions.
  • Author expects UK economy & house prices will soften & drop in autumn 2016, when politicians return from holiday & the disaster progressively starts to unravel.
    • Business likes stability & a predictable future market. Brexit will produce a lot of market disruption & more scares as it unfolds. Building new alternative trade agreements & finding customers outside EU will take years.
    • Whether investing in new production lines, or lubricating foreign palms to place "invisible export" contracts in UK, etc, It takes time to recoup investments. More reason for a bust than a boom.
    • Bankers in London fear for jobs. France & Germany will make bids yet again to shoulder out the London finance market.
    • Would an EU citizen buy a house in London today ? With some idiot UK politicians saying existing EU people in UK might have to go home ? Half a million French in London author recalls ? Maybe same again for Poles ? Whatever the numbers are, won't be good for London & SE property market
    • A bad time to `invest' in UK property. (Except perhaps not a bad time for buyers with Euros or dollars as pound is worth a lot less ).
    • Some in UK will start trying to drive harder bargains courtesy of Brexit fears.
    • Britain in 20 years might or not do better outside EU, but short term next year or 2, UK will do worse, The disaster of Brexit will take time to unfold. (When West Germany damaged its economy acquiring East Germany, it was a 20+ year long financial disaster (though benefited NATO)).
  • Message as sent 2016-07-19 18:31 CEST" to Ian Blackford MP, SNP who will open debate on the Petition. (Others might like to send similar to other MPs)
    Brexit: Westminster Hall 2016-09-05 16:30. UK stole 700,000 votes from British in EU.
    Dear Mr Ian Blackford
    • As you will open the debate, I'd be grateful if you &/or colleagues could please reference in relation to Referendum numerics:
    • 700,000+ UK citizens resident in EU over 15 years were denied a vote !
    • Massive gerrymandering: nearly all would most probably have voted to remain in EU, based on sample at 2nd open meeting of British in Munich Germany 9th May, attended by the British consul.
    • Britain also stole our right to have constituency MPs to refer to.
    • Many of us are still intensely British & visit often, have investments & property in UK etc; eg author was in his UK high street on the day, encouraging people to vote, telling them Britain had stolen my right to vote.
    • Britain & Eire are the only 2 countries in European Union who steal the right to vote from citizens outside the country (USA also doesn't steal); That has so far only been challenged to UK's national supreme court, not to an International Court
    "Julian H. Stacey" <>
    +49 89 ........ (Germany, happy to call back, flat rate to UK land lines)
  • 2016-11-03 BBC Brexit court defeat for UK government
    Ruling in full
  • 2016-12-08 BBC Last day of supreme court hearing. expecting the judgement in January

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A Strategy (Chronological)

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Law Case against our being denied a vote

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2016-05-09 18:00 Meeting: 2nd Munich Meeting

Invitation To 2nd Meeting:

Open meeting with the British Consul General

Host Arranger: Robert Harrison

MUC Brits and Brexit - Q&A with Paul Heardmann - UK Consul

Hosted by Robert Harrison facebook page Monday, May 9 at 6:00 PM - 9:00 PM in UTC+02

Hacker-Pschorr Bräuhaus München Theresienhöhe 7, 80337 Munich, Germany


After our meeting in March, a number of people had questions about the Referendum and the effect on UK citizens living in Munich and surrounding areas. Paul Heardmann, who is the UK Consul General in Munich, has kindly agreed to a Q and A session on 9 May at 18:00 in the Pschorr Brauhaus, Theresienhöhe.

He can talk about the British government's position and about voting rights for expatriates in general. Please bear in mind that his role in Germany and Bavaria is to present the government's view and to work for a solution that is good for the UK and its citizens in Germany, whatever the outcome of the Referendum. I'm sure that he will convey any concerns that back to London, but until the outcome of the Referendum, he will not be able to speculate about any outcomes.

We had a good turnout for the last meeting and I've booked a slightly larger room. The event is free of charge - the restaurant will charge for food and drink.

To give us some idea of numbers, please let us know whether you would like to come.

Rob's Facebook page has a discussion button, but no public access ... Facebook monopoly.

To help know how many seats are needed,
Please email _brexit_@_robharrison_._eu_ ( Remove all '_' ! )

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Notes From 2nd Meeting 2016-05-09

A few friends couldn't make it & asked author for a report, rather than repeat by phone & over a beer etc, notes below.
Corrections Welcome

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Notes Of Meeting

  • author counted & recalls maybe 30 or so, maybe more were still arriving then. author thinks Rob counted more later ?
  • Vast majority by a show of hands (called by an audience member on Faraday table) could Not vote, been here too long, just a few could vote, about 4 or 5 maybe). Considerable resentment that we couldn't vote.
  • Most by far were edging toward retirement or retired, only very few were near young ... (There are lot of young British in Munich, not there though).
    Several lawyers in audience, Various EPO, Faraday, Berklix etc
  • Lots of concern to spread the word both in Munich & back home. Postcard size green flyers handed out promoting gov . uk / register - to - vote
  • Nearly all seemed in favour of UK remaining in EU.
  • Consul was introduced. He's been in Munich 4 years.
  • Consul spoke:
    • Promoting staying in EU, following the government line.
    • Asked if he should play it neutrally with a civil servant's straight bat, he did not feel the need, & was happy to promote the government line: Stay in EU.
    • Soon-ish [date?] Consul will be bound by Purdah & must then remain neutral.
    • He gave a timetable of events (all verbal, nothing written, stuff like when his purdah starts). He said we have about a week to safely apply to vote.
    • He made no mention there's a great mass of British throughout EU seriously annoyed we're dis-enfranchised by 15 year rule;
    • No mention of law case to try to get us votes, until we asked about case, at which point 3 or more audience members informed us.
    • He knew by prior show of hands, how few of us could vote, as dis-enfranchised by his employer the UK government, but did Nothing to inform us to help overturning the wholesale disenfranchising of us, British citizens in Munich & Bavaria, (even though if we were enfranchised, the vast majority was inclined to vote per his government instructors).
    • Various members of audience seemed to think he wasn't casting much light on various topics he could have. A subset of those things were generally realised to be unforeseeable, & as he pointed out he's not on an expert on German Nationality procedure of course. Perhaps he'd be more forthcoming on trade, than our voting franchise & personal rights interests, but before the Chamber Of Commerce meeting he'll be into Purdah so can't speak there.
  • A lot of concern about pensions, right to residence & work, & variety of other topics.
  • Some abstract discussion about some Vienna convention on citizens retaining right in event of ...
  • Some here (R.) are applying for German citizenship. Can't have dual German & other citizenship (said various people, but this author believes that is too simplistic, there are minor exceptions, can't remember, author recalls Jews & 2 other categories ? A German national (C.) told author after, if eg mother German & ... but most have to choose at 18 - however that's a matter of German law, not British law, French, Polish law etc.). Can have eg British & French dual.
  • There's a law case going through the courts, re us not being able to vote. Someone from Faraday/EPO long table by window handed author earlier papers. author showed to D. D told us all: result was/ would be today (same day as our meeting) Little chance of appeal succeeding.
  • One can renounce British citizenship irrevocably if one wants, but German constitution gives more protection (D. said).
  • EU treaty says 2 years if a country wants to leave. When starting ? Not specified. D. thought it would take far longer, & after 5 years UK might start to negotiate to re-enter EU.
  • Rob intended to send email list to Julian to install on berklix mail lists Julian intended to set Rob as list owner. Rob did not send list.
  • Some inc. P. want to meet on election night as the results come in, preferably with a live news feed. (It was probably assumed TV would be nice, but a bar/ restaurant beer garden with an accessible WLAN for eg an Android tablet + a "Film on Live TV App" might choke on limited bandwidth - might be better to settle for an Android FM Radio App, or even just a high quality conventional radio, any of which this author could bring).
    That & other follow up Can be discussed on mail list.

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After 2nd Meeting - Munich Specific

There were 5,949 British (3,654 male, 2,295 female) in Munich at 2015-12-31 (Source "Die ausländische Bevölkerung nach der Staatsangehörigkeit 2015 (Stand 31.12.) ).
Unknown how many will be blocked by the over 15 year lack of UK residence rule, not allowed to vote like children under 18.

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Links to other sites (News, Opinions, Debates, Law Suits etc

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Jokes, Stickers, Graphics, Comedy

Odds - Not yet stripped & integrated in to right position in page

  • Questions & Answers with British Consul
  • Organisers Ingrid & David:
  • A Meeting in Munich of maybe 50 ? or so British again, about 14? no shows so tables spare.
  • Chair: David, Speakers A chap from Vienna who will start a group there, Ingrid, & many others, (inc this author Julian).
  • Not in chronological order
  • All very dis-satisfied with Consul uttering copious Government soft soap not believed by anyone present. Various interjections on rubbish such as "EU keeping UK waiting", & "negotiations in good faith on both sides"
    (European negotiators probably somewhat wary of a delaying, chaotic British government, surviving on bribed Northern Ireland votes, claiming to represent a riven nation, that denies its citizens abroad votes, & threatens EU citizen rights in UK, thus imperilling UK citizen rights in EU.)
  • David mentioned, re. Government fumbling: it had been British foreign policy for 500 years to split & balance European forces. Britain has now managed the opposite: To unite Europe against Britain.
  • David volunteered he could contact authorities to investigate citizen status issues if only Consul would give him high level introductions instead of currently working bottom up. Consul ignored the offer.
  • Ingrid said organisers of citizens impacted by Brexit were self financing expenses, (particularly in Berlin), including expenses of visiting government in UK. No offer of help from UK government, Consul more than ignored that request for support, said they couldn't support political parties. Ignored we're from all political parties, this s apolitical, only thing in common is we're British, imperilled by Britain& deprived of right to constituency MPs to represent us.
  • Consul said he would _Not_ relay to London the depth of concerns & annoyance from the meeting, despite UK has deprived us of constituency MPs to represent us.
  • Consul said he was willing to come again.
  • Many other point were made by many other people, I don't have time to type, if you were there, post to the Mail List & I can mouse copy text or links.

  • After Formal End:
  • Numerous people observed, despite the Consul uttering government rubbish, most speakers had still articulated their disbelief, fears, & anger, in a very British under stated manner, while many other nationals would have reacted much more vigorously.
  • Many suspect the Consul will not present to London the full breadth as well as certainly not the depth of our problems, concerns, etc.
  • Is a Consul any benefit to us ?
    • This time (as last) nothing was learned, nothing solved, nothing gained from the Consul.
      However, we did learn from each other, so is a Consul merely useful as a PR catalyst, to draw extra audience ?
    • Is government purpose for Consular attendance, merely to be seen to go through the motions, make an audience feel they've been listened to, but do Nothing, Not help, & provide Nothing ?
      (Not pure cynicism: To consult trade union representatives, with intent to do nothing after, is a technique this author first observed in junior management in his early 20s. - Repeats play less well to large audiences of professionals ;-).
    • Is a Consul best a mere mouthpiece of a floundering government of the day ?
    • Or do Consuls etc as long term civil servants bear a deeper duty to support citizens abroad who find themselves suddenly assailed by a mass of problems, (amazingly triggered not by foreign host countries, but by British government incompetence).
    • British Consuls etc as civil servants are NOT political appointees to pander to politics of the day, unlike eg USA ambassadors appointed by a president.
    • When more stable British governments returns, career reviews may not be so rosey for civil servants that merely pandered to deposed politicians.
    • Could Consuls help Ex pats with Brexit impacts ? Many cynics say "Useless to us, just interested in promoting trade."
      Even such consuls would be foolish to refuse to warn London: British "Soft Power" degrades as British Ex Pats tell associates "Don't trust Britain! It stole our votes, scared British they might loose health treatment, scared us to apply for foreign citizenship; & scared EU citizens in UK too."
    • Tell the brexit@ mail list or a meeting announced on the brexit@ mail list, if you have ideas to protect Ex-Pats from the impacts of Brexit.
Hi, list http:// mailman . berklix . org / mailman / listinfo / brexit

Rob Harrison wrote (off list):
> Just spotted this private members bill.
> http :// services . parliament . uk / bills / 2017 - 19 / overseaselectors . html

"This Bill is expected to have its second reading debate on Friday 23 February 2018."

As May & Corbin are both inflexibly for Brexit, we'd probably still have no votes in time if there's a 2nd Referendum on Brexit terms negotiated.
Both major parties are held by leaders & whips enforcing Brexit, so we're doomed, unless we help stir it to achieve new leaders &/ or minority governments, where Brexit can be voted by individual MPs as free votes of conscience.
Best to derail May's back door trade deals with local EU leaders (which EU has told member countries not to do). British in Europe could send short notes in local languages to each recipient of David Davis's flying visits, eg Draft Here, improvements or better ideas ?
Demo Tips, Retrospective, For others elsewhere:
  • "Versammlungen unter freiem Himmel: www . muenchen . de / rathaus / Stadtverwaltung / Kreisverwaltungsreferat / Veranstaltungs - und - Versammlungsbuero / Versammlungen - unter - freiem - Himmel . html
  • Even our mini group registered for 15 got its own police car, various of us said hello to the 2 of them. They parked their car on pavement adjacent to cycle track. It was raining, Mostly one was out of car & one in.
  • As our group was so small, we'd have been better off on central grass strip, police wouldn't want that for large demos I presume, but for just a few may be possible ?
  • Keep flags well back from road edges, to avoid traffic hazard.
  • Calling & Chanting: Avoid long words & long slogans - means low volume! - Fails across wide noisey roads
  • Calling "Stop Brexit" seems pointless: They are highly paid to push Brexit!
  • Better call eg "Stolen votes! & Gestohlen [Wahl-] Stimmen" - causes surprise & comment with local hosts. Or call "Talk To Us" maybe ?
  • Have a small bottle of water in jacket pocket. Water just in rucksack fails when shouting Load & dry if busy also holding a flag in wind & rain, & back pack out of reach) (This author can be Very loud, but not dry throated!)
  • Bring a whistle maybe. Seems not unusual in Germany.

Corrections Welcome

Author welcomes corrections, especially with specific web reference URLS. No transient URLs to forum comment (aka tweets etc) that time expire, nor to text hidden behind passwords aka Fbook, just static public references.

Author Julian H. Stacey

Odds to sort:

Berklix.Net Computer Associates Domains Apache: Web Server FreeBSD: Operating System Brexit Stolen Votes